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Westjet: Charting a flight plan for steady growth

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I do not fly them but some of you do I guess ;)

Charting a flight plan for steady growth

BRENT JANG

TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

September 1, 2007

WestJet Airlines Ltd. has grown rapidly over the past 11 years, expanding to 67 planes from just three when it opened for business in Western Canada.

Having triumphed as a profitable carrier in the volatile airline industry, Calgary-based WestJet now needs the right strategy to keep the momentum going.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... y/Business

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I have the impression that Westjet has run out viable places to expand given their uni fleet. They seem to try different destinations only to stop a short time later.

Yup,like YSB where 737s are tough to fill.

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I have the impression that Westjet has run out viable places to expand given their uni fleet. They seem to try different destinations only to stop a short time later.

Yup,like YSB where 737s are tough to fill.

If Westjet was to fly a CRJ or some other barbie jet on that route, it could be profitable.

The converse is Westjet's inability to provide reliable non stop service to the Hawaiian Islands with their current fleet.

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Another story with no substance or content. A puff piece that financial pages love to do instead of looking at the real story about how the numbers would stack up if WS -- or any airline -- was to start up a new route, and the myriad of issues involved. (AC and AE get the same treatment, as do most corporations who can manipulate the financial page editors around their baby fingers.)

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Standby for response from Rosedale in 3.....2......1...... :lol:

Hey, its "rosey" now...we are all friends here :lol: Of course you could use coffeebean or many of the other aliases he posts under on other sites

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Standby for response from Rosedale in 3.....2......1...... :lol:

Hey, its "rosey" now...we are all friends here :lol: Of course you could use coffeebean or many of the other aliases he posts under on other sites

Hey...I'd consolidate under one if I could figure out how to do it. :lol: Most of the folks who run the forums have received e-mails from me because I'm perpetually forgetting passwords and user ID's. Too many computers in too many places.

As for the "unreliable" service to Hawaii, I've flown it dozens of times in the last couple of years on AC, Harmony and WS. I've never had an otp issue of any magnitude with any of them, with the exception of a n/s KOA-YVR flight that left about 3 hours late..at 3:00am, last winter.

The tech stop rumor is a nice one, and one the apologists love to bring up, but you can count on one hand the number of times it occurs annually.

Better to tech stop a few times than invest in an as yet unneeded 2nd fleet type. :lol:

I dare say the opportunity with 119 seat 737's flying YYZ-YAM/YSB would be more viable than the previous incarnation that was all YHM based. However, if you have a choice of YSB or YAM over some of the other opportunities out there, let's face it, YAM and YSB can wait.

Since then, the only city I can think WJ has backed away from was LGA/NYC and that was pretty much a slot issue.

Interestingly, in the fall of 1999, AC/CP had 166 weekly rotations thru LGA. In early '04, it had dropped to 125. Capacity from Canada dropped from about 11,700 seats to about 7,900 seats a week. As I recall, CP got a bunch of slots as part of the Open Skies agreement in 1995 in order to equalize the playing field. 41 of them disappeared with consolidation. All WJ needs is 3 growing to 5-6 a day. 2 doesn't cut it.

With double digit operating margins, WJ is in a fairly good position of trying out new stuff without the bottom line taking a beating. When your operating margins are already dancing in the low single digits, it doesn't give companies a lot of room to play.

If you've ever played Risk, you know what happens when you overextend yourself.

8)

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Interestingly, in the fall of 1999, AC/CP had 166 weekly rotations thru LGA. In early '04, it had dropped to 125. Capacity from Canada dropped from about 11,700 seats to about 7,900 seats a week. As I recall, CP got a bunch of slots as part of the Open Skies agreement in 1995 in order to equalize the playing field. 41 of them disappeared with consolidation.

Actually, just checked the July 1999 sked and compared it with July 2007. Without doing a detailed count, at most, it looks like the number of rotations is off by one roundtrip a day from 1999 (based on weekday -- I admittedly didn't look at weekends because only weekdays matter when it comes to slot count).

Based on that, it would appear to me that the number of slots actually hasn't changed and that AC assumed all of CP's LGA slots.

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Interestingly, in the fall of 1999, AC/CP had 166 weekly rotations thru LGA. In early '04, it had dropped to 125. Capacity from Canada dropped from about 11,700 seats to about 7,900 seats a week. As I recall, CP got a bunch of slots as part of the Open Skies agreement in 1995 in order to equalize the playing field. 41 of them disappeared with consolidation.

Actually, just checked the July 1999 sked and compared it with July 2007. Without doing a detailed count, at most, it looks like the number of rotations is off by one roundtrip a day from 1999 (based on weekday -- I admittedly didn't look at weekends because only weekdays matter when it comes to slot count).

Based on that, it would appear to me that the number of slots actually hasn't changed and that AC assumed all of CP's LGA slots.

My count includes stuff from YUL and YOW, and was the fall / winter sched. Back then it was mostly 319's and CP 737's from YYZ, and DC9's / 319's from YUL.

Checking the '07 fall sched, (from YYZ), there are 76 flights a week from YYZ-LGA, up from 62 in 2004, but way down from 109 a week in 1999.

Capacity has dropped from 11,700 seats a week to 7,700 seats a week. 8)

YOW-LGA remains at 3x daily M-F, 1x daily Sat and 2x daily Sun all in CRJ's. Thats a reduction of one frequency since 2004.

YUL-LGA is 7x daily M-F, 5x on Sat and 7x on Sun, up 3 flights a week since 2004, but lower capacity, given 18 of the flights used to be on Airbus and now only 7 of them are on Airbus and 26 are on 73 seat E75's, smaller than the the 146's that handled about half of the flights 3 years ago.

There's no question that a number of slots disappeared. It appears to be about 31 a week.

8)

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My count includes YOW and YUL as well.

If you want to play the game that way to show that you're right, then fine.

But you have are misleading in your analysis -- like I said, the important count is weekdays, not weekends. That is how slot allocation is counted.

Under the 1995 Open Skies Agreement, the Government of Canada was guaranteed 42 base slots to distribute to its carriers. Air Canada had 28 or 30 slots that they owned. The rest were given to the Government for distribution and the rest is history.

But note: since 1995, no carrier sold any of their slots. http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf99/431184_web.pdf

So, based on daily WEEKDAY operations, AC is currently using 42-44 (maybe even 46) slots depending on season. So the number of slots haven't gone down or disappeared. They have just chosen to operate few frequencies on weekends.

This is a lot different than from what you are implying. So if you are arguing slots, argue slots. But if you're arguing frequencies (which is what you are doing), then argue frequencies and don't throw in slots into the picture!

And when talking about LGA specifically, weekday operations is all the matters. Nobody cares about weekend rotations when computing slots.

Of course, you might also want to count the number of flights to EWR and JFK, just to be fair and complete in your analysis.

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I am talking about slots at LGA only, fall / winter sched.

If you want weekdays only, YYZ-LGA was 60 weekly in 1999, 59 in 2004 and 60 in 2007. Add 25 weekday arrivals on Canadian iron, the rest on AA iron.

YUL - LGA was 35 weekly in 1999, 34 in 2004 and 35 in 2007. CP did not operate the route with their iron.

YOW - LGA was 15 weekly in 1999, 15 in 2004 and 15 in 2007. CP did not operate the route with their iron.

In total, Canadian carriers had 135 arrivals at LGA on weekdays in 1999. That is now down to 110 arrivals. As mentioned, capacity on Cdn - based carriers is way, way down.

On weekends, YYZ-LGA was 15 in 1999 + 9 on Canadian, 13 in 2004 and 16 in 2007.

YUL-LGA weekends was 7 in 1999, 10 in 2004 and 12 in 2007. None on Canadian iron.

YOW-LGA weekends was 5 in 1999, 4 in 2004 and 3 in 2007. None on Canadian iron.

Totals were 27 in 1999 + 9 Canadian, 27 in 2004 and 31 in 2007.

That indicates a drop from 36 to 31 slots on weekends.

In total, 30 fewer weekly arrivals, 25 weekdays and 5 on weekends.

So what happened to the 30 LGA slots and how have consumers benefited by the reduction of 30 flights a week and about 4,000 fewer weekly seats from Canada to LGA in the past 8 years?

:lol:

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Again, you're talking apples and oranges. Either you don't know how LGA slots work, you enjoy playing games to misrepresent numbers, or your head is thicker than a brick.

If the Government of Canada can say to the United States Government that all 42 slots are being used, how can there be less than 42 slots being utilized?

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Let's go over this again. :roll:

The original claim is that when AC/CP merged, they were collectively in possession of more slots at LGA than the merged entity currently utilize. I don't really care how they were originally acquired. That is not material to the discussion.

Slots can not be hoarded. Use them or lose them. One does not normally simply give them away given their intrinsic value. Perhaps they were.

In 1999, the combined entities of AC and CP had a total of 30 more weekly flights from all points in Canada to LGA than in the 2007 fall sched. 25 of them were weekdays, 5 on weekends. The total capacity decline is about 4,000 seats a week.

You want flight numbers, times and equipment utilized to prove this? It's all there in black and white.

Once again, some of you can't see the forest for the trees, nor have you ever actually gone thru the slot application process with LAA's.

This is like having a discussion with obstinate children.

Thank goodness that's the case, because it's the same bunch who figured WJ wouldn't last 6 months, and had irrefutable data to prove it. Or the know it alls who figured jetBlue couldn't make a go of it at JFK........or the gang that figured Toluca would never work.....

Yes sir. We're so wrong. Always so wrong. Dumb as a sack of hammers....but isn't it funny how being so hopelessy wrong could result in such delightful financial rewards for investors? Ouch. That's gotta hurt.

Get over it. The business isn't for the risk adverse, the faint of heart or for armchair quarterbacks who's hindsite is 20-20.

The game we are playing here is closest to the old game of 'Christians and lions.'

- Robert L. Crandall, CEO & President of American Airlines

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8)

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Fine then, here we go. Let's let everyone judge for themselves.

August 1999 sked:

AC 307	LGA	YOW	x67	0835	0955
AC 307	LGA	YOW	6	0920	1040
AC 308	YOW	LGA	x67	0645	0803
AC 308	YOW	LGA	6	0730	0848
AC 309	LGA	YOW	Dly	1530	1650
AC 310	YOW	LGA	Dly	1340	1500
AC 313	LGA	YOW	x6	1850	2010
AC 314	YOW	LGA	x6	1700	1818
AC 700	YYZ	LGA	x67	0700	0826
AC 701	LGA	YYZ	x67	0710	0841
AC 702	YYZ	LGA	Dly	0800	0919
AC 703	LGA	YYZ	x7	0810	0941
AC 704	YYZ	LGA	x7	0900	1022
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	6	0910	1038
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	x67	0910	1041
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	7	0910	1041
AC 707	LGA	YYZ	x7	1010	1133
AC 708	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1100	1222
AC 709	LGA	YYZ	7	1110	1233
AC 709	LGA	YYZ	x7	1110	1238
AC 712	YYZ	LGA	x67	1300	1422
AC 712	YYZ	LGA	7	1300	1422
AC 713	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1310	1438
AC 714	YYZ	LGA	x7	1400	1520
AC 716	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1500	1622
AC 717	LGA	YYZ	7	1510	1638
AC 717	LGA	YYZ	x67	1510	1633
AC 718	YYZ	LGA	7	1500	1622
AC 718	YYZ	LGA	x67	1600	1722
AC 719	LGA	YYZ	x7	1610	1744
AC 720	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1700	1822
AC 721	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1710	1841
AC 722	YYZ	LGA	x6	1800	1922
AC 723	LGA	YYZ	x67	1810	1944
AC 723	LGA	YYZ	7	1810	1942
AC 724	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1900	2022
AC 725	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1910	2044
AC 726	YYZ	LGA	x67	2100	2217
AC 726	YYZ	LGA	7	2100	2220
AC 727	LGA	YYZ	x6	2010	2144
AC 740	YUL	LGA	x67	0645	0804
AC 741	LGA	YUL	x67	0700	0813
AC 742	YUL	LGA	Dly	0900	1012
AC 743	LGA	YUL	x67	0845	1005
AC 743	LGA	YUL	67	0845	1005
AC 745	LGA	YUL	x7	1100	1213
AC 746	YUL	LGA	x67	1250	1402
AC 748	YUL	LGA	Dly	1500	1613
AC 749	LGA	YUL	x6	1445	1558
AC 750	YUL	LGA	x6	1830	1942
AC 750	YUL	LGA	6	1830	1943
AC 751	LGA	YUL	Dly	1700	1823
AC 752	YUL	LGA	x6	1930	2043
AC 753	LGA	YUL	x6	2025	2141
CP 520	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1100	1222
CP 521	LGA	YYZ	x7	0745	0920
CP 522	YYZ	LGA	x6	1455	1624
CP 523	LGA	YYZ	Dly	0900	1032
CP 525	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1300	1426
CP 526	YYZ	LGA	x6	1915	2044
CP 527	LGA	YYZ	x6	1659	1833
CP 528	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1600	1725
CP 531	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1800	1935
CP 532	YYZ	LGA	x6	2035	2159
CP 532	YYZ	LGA	6	2035	2200
CP1694	YYZ	LGA	6	1455	1624
CP1695	LGA	YYZ	6	1659	1833

Total weekday slots: 52

Here is July 2007 sked:

AC 700	YYZ	LGA	x7	0620	0748
AC 700	YYZ	LGA	7	0620	0748
AC 701	LGA	YYZ	Dly	0650	0820
AC 702	YYZ	LGA	x67	0815	0943
AC 704	YYZ	LGA	Dly	0915	1043
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	x7	0830	1008
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	7	0830	1008
AC 706	YYZ	LGA	x67	1015	1143
AC 707	LGA	YYZ	x67	1030	1205
AC 708	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1115	1243
AC 709	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1130	1305
AC 710	YYZ	LGA	x7	1215	1343
AC 711	LGA	YYZ	x67	1230	1405
AC 713	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1330	1505
AC 714	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1415	1543
AC 715	LGA	YYZ	x7	1430	1608
AC 716	YYZ	LGA	x67	1515	1643
AC 718	YYZ	LGA	x6	1615	1743
AC 719	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1630	1808
AC 720	YYZ	LGA	x67	1715	1843
AC 720	YYZ	LGA	7	1715	1843
AC 721	LGA	YYZ	x67	1730	1908
AC 722	YYZ	LGA	67	1815	1943
AC 722	YYZ	LGA	x67	1815	1943
AC 723	LGA	YYZ	x6	1830	2008
AC 724	YYZ	LGA	Dly	2015	2143
AC 725	LGA	YYZ	x67	1930	2108
AC 725	LGA	YYZ	7	1930	2108
AC 727	LGA	YYZ	67	2030	2200
AC 727	LGA	YYZ	x67	2030	2200
AC 740	YUL	LGA	x7	0640	0805
AC 741	LGA	YUL	x7	0630	0750
AC 742	YUL	LGA	Dly	0845	1010
AC 743	LGA	YUL	x7	0850	1018
AC 743	LGA	YUL	7	0850	1018
AC 745	LGA	YUL	Dly	1050	1215
AC 746	YUL	LGA	x67	1345	1510
AC 747	LGA	YUL	x67	1545	1713
AC 748	YUL	LGA	x6	1530	1655
AC 750	YUL	LGA	Dly	1740	1908
AC 751	LGA	YUL	x6	1740	1908
AC 752	YUL	LGA	Dly	1955	2120
AC 753	LGA	YUL	Dly	1950	2115
AC7730	YOW	LGA	x67	0625	0748
AC7731	LGA	YOW	x67	0820	0946
AC7732	YOW	LGA	Dly	1410	1533
AC7733	LGA	YOW	Dly	1605	1731
AC7734	YOW	LGA	x6	1805	1928
AC7735	LGA	YOW	x6	2000	2126
AC7948	YYZ	LGA	7	1215	1343
AC7949	LGA	YYZ	7	1430	1608
AC7962	YYZ	LGA	6	1615	1743
AC7963	LGA	YYZ	6	1830	2008
AC8689	LGA	YUL	x6	1300	1425
AC8690	YUL	LGA	x6	1035	1200
AC8691	LGA	YUL	67	1545	1713
AC8692	YUL	LGA	67	1345	1510
AC8693	LGA	YUL	6	1740	1908
AC8694	YUL	LGA	6	1530	1655
AC8900	YHZ	LGA	Dly	1145	1230
AC8901	LGA	YHZ	x6	1230	1510
AC8901	LGA	YHZ	6	1300	1540

Total weekday slots: 46

And just for kicks, here is August 1998 sked:

AC 700	YYZ	LGA	x67	0700	0818
AC 701	LGA	YYZ	x67	0700	0826
AC 702	YYZ	LGA	Dly	0800	0918
AC 703	LGA	YYZ	x7	0800	0926
AC 704	YYZ	LGA	x7	0900	1018
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	Dly	0900	1026
AC 707	LGA	YYZ	x7	1000	1126
AC 708	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1100	1218
AC 709	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1100	1226
AC 712	YYZ	LGA	x6	1300	1418
AC 713	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1300	1426
AC 714	YYZ	LGA	x7	1400	1518
AC 716	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1500	1618
AC 717	LGA	YYZ	x6	1500	1626
AC 718	YYZ	LGA	x6	1600	1718
AC 719	LGA	YYZ	x7	1600	1730
AC 720	YYZ	LGA	x7	1700	1818
AC 721	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1700	1830
AC 722	YYZ	LGA	x6	1800	1918
AC 723	LGA	YYZ	x6	1800	1930
AC 724	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1900	2018
AC 725	LGA	YYZ	x7	1900	2030
AC 726	YYZ	LGA	x6	2100	2218
AC 727	LGA	YYZ	x6	2000	2126
AC 740	YUL	LGA	x67	0645	0800
AC 741	LGA	YUL	x67	0645	0759
AC 742	YUL	LGA	Dly	0915	1027
AC 743	LGA	YUL	Dly	0845	0959
AC 745	LGA	YUL	x7	1115	1229
AC 746	YUL	LGA	x67	1250	1402
AC 748	YUL	LGA	Dly	1500	1612
AC 749	LGA	YUL	x6	1445	1559
AC 750	YUL	LGA	Dly	1815	1927
AC 751	LGA	YUL	Dly	1715	1829
AC 752	YUL	LGA	x6	1915	2030
AC 753	LGA	YUL	x6	2015	2129
CP 520	YYZ	LGA	x7	1100	1217
CP 521	LGA	YYZ	x7	0759	0926
CP 522	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1500	1621
CP 523	LGA	YYZ	Dly	0900	1029
CP 525	LGA	YYZ	x7	1300	1425
CP 526	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1900	2020
CP 527	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1659	1829
CP 528	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1600	1721
CP 531	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1800	1930
CP 532	YYZ	LGA	x6	2100	2219
CP2170	YYZ	LGA	7	1100	1220
CP2171	LGA	YYZ	7	1300	1425

Total weekday slots: 46

1998 and 2007 numbers seem pretty identical to me. Furthermore, 52 to 46 seems like hardly the drop to me.

While you say slot acquisition is immaterial, I would entirely disagree. The whole issue at LGA is how to get slots. And it would seem to me that in Summer 1999, the carriers lucked out and were able to borrow slots.

But regardless Coffeebean, I mean Rosedale, you happen to take a year that fit your argument. Quite misleading.

Furthermore, if WestJet wanted more slots, you know just as well as I know that they could have gotten it. But of course, WS is not willing to operate four or five returns between 2000 and 2300.

Source: OAG.

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And August 1997, just for more kicks:

AC 700	YYZ	LGA	x67	0710	0828
AC 701	LGA	YYZ	x67	0715	0841
AC 702	YYZ	LGA	Dly	0810	0928
AC 703	LGA	YYZ	Dly	0815	0941
AC 704	YYZ	LGA	x7	0910	1028
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	6	0915	1041
AC 705	LGA	YYZ	x67	0915	1041
AC 707	LGA	YYZ	x7	1015	1141
AC 708	YYZ	LGA	67	1110	1228
AC 708	YYZ	LGA	x67	1110	1228
AC 709	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1115	1241
AC 712	YYZ	LGA	x6	1310	1428
AC 713	LGA	YYZ	67	1315	1441
AC 713	LGA	YYZ	x67	1315	1441
AC 714	YYZ	LGA	6	1410	1528
AC 714	YYZ	LGA	x67	1410	1528
AC 716	YYZ	LGA	6	1510	1628
AC 716	YYZ	LGA	x6	1510	1628
AC 717	LGA	YYZ	x6	1515	1641
AC 718	YYZ	LGA	7	1610	1728
AC 718	YYZ	LGA	x67	1610	1728
AC 719	LGA	YYZ	6	1615	1741
AC 719	LGA	YYZ	x67	1615	1741
AC 720	YYZ	LGA	x7	1710	1828
AC 721	LGA	YYZ	6	1715	1841
AC 721	LGA	YYZ	x6	1715	1841
AC 722	YYZ	LGA	x6	1810	1928
AC 723	LGA	YYZ	7	1815	1941
AC 723	LGA	YYZ	x67	1815	1941
AC 724	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1910	2028
AC 725	LGA	YYZ	x7	1915	2040
AC 726	YYZ	LGA	x56	2100	2218
AC 726	YYZ	LGA	5	2100	2218
AC 727	LGA	YYZ	x6	2015	2141
AC 740	YUL	LGA	x67	0700	0812
AC 741	LGA	YUL	x67	0655	0803
AC 742	YUL	LGA	Dly	0900	1007
AC 743	LGA	YUL	Dly	0900	1014
AC 745	LGA	YUL	x7	1100	1211
AC 746	YUL	LGA	x67	1305	1411
AC 748	YUL	LGA	Dly	1505	1611
AC 749	LGA	YUL	x6	1500	1610
AC 750	YUL	LGA	Dly	1815	1923
AC 751	LGA	YUL	Dly	1700	1811
AC 752	YUL	LGA	x6	1920	2030
AC 753	LGA	YUL	x6	2030	2139
CP 520	YYZ	LGA	x7	1100	1217
CP 521	LGA	YYZ	x7	0759	0922
CP 522	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1500	1619
CP 523	LGA	YYZ	x7	0900	1025
CP 525	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1300	1425
CP 526	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1905	2031
CP 527	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1700	1825
CP 528	YYZ	LGA	Dly	1600	1719
CP 531	LGA	YYZ	Dly	1800	1925
CP 532	YYZ	LGA	x6	2000	2120

Total weekday slots: 46

Seems pretty equal to me.

Anyway, I rest my case.

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I thought I made it pretty clear we were talking about the fall / winter sched..... :roll:

I think we can also assume that whatever flies into LGA has to fly out of LGA. :roll:

History: Canadian Airlines International (CAI) won the lion's share-16-of the new slots allocated to Canadian carriers at Chicago O'Hare and New York LaGuardia airports under terms of the just-signed aviation agreement between the U.S. and Canada.

Canadian Transport Minister Douglas Young announced the allocation of slots, giving six at Chicago and 10 at LaGuardia to CAI and four at Chicago and four at LaGuardia to Air Canada. The slots were given to the Canadian lines on a use-it-or-lose it basis, Young said. Both carriers had applied for all 24 slots. "I want to ensure that these slots are used effectively," Young explained. He added that Canadian travelers and businesses "will benefit greatly from the new and expanded access to two of the largest U.S. markets."

1999

Air Canada

Market Departure Arrival Block Time Flight # Equipment

YYZ-LGA 7:00 AM 8:35 AM 1:35 700 319

YYZ-LGA 8:00 AM 9:23 AM 1:23 702 320

YYZ-LGA 9:00 AM 10:30 AM 1:30 704 319

YYZ-LGA 11:00 AM 12:23 PM 1:23 708 319

YYZ-LGA 1:00 PM 2:19 PM 1:19 712 319

YYZ-LGA 2:00 PM 3:19 PM 1:19 714 319

YYZ-LGA 3:00 PM 4:23 PM 1:23 716 319

YYZ-LGA 4:00 PM 5:23 PM 1:23 718 319

YYZ-LGA 5:00 PM 6:25 PM 1:25 720 319

YYZ-LGA 6:00 PM 7:29 PM 1:29 722 319

YYZ-LGA 7:00 PM 8:19 PM 1:19 724 DC9

YYZ-LGA 9:00 PM 10:20 PM 1:20 726 319

Weekday departures: 60

Weekend departures: 15

Total departures: 75

Canadian Airlines

Market Departure Arrival Block Time Flight # Equipment

YYZ-LGA 6:48 AM 8:20 AM 1:32 6200 AA MD80

YYZ-LGA 7:48 AM 9:08 AM 1:20 5326 AA F100

YYZ-LGA 9:40 AM 11:15 AM 1:35 6202 AA F100

YYZ-LGA 11:00 AM 12:20 PM 1:20 520 737

YYZ-LGA 12:45 PM 2:09 PM 1:24 6214 AA F100

YYZ-LGA 1:55 PM 3:22 PM 1:27 6208 AA F100

YYZ-LGA 2:55 PM 4:21 PM 1:26 522 737

YYZ-LGA 4:00 PM 5:28 PM 1:28 528 737

YYZ-LGA 5:00 PM 6:29 PM 1:29 6212 AA F100

YYZ-LGA 6:16 PM 7:52 PM 1:36 6210 AA F100

YYZ-LGA 7:15 PM 8:44 PM 1:29 526 737

YYZ-LGA 8:45 PM 10:11 PM 1:26 532 737

Weekday departures on CP iron: 25

Weekend departures on CP iron: 9

Total departures on CP iron: 34

1999

YUL-LGA 6:45 AM 8:12 AM 1:27 740 320

YUL-LGA 9:00 AM 10:17 AM 1:17 742 DC9

YUL-LGA 12:25 PM 1:42 PM 1:17 746 DC9

YUL-LGA 3:00 PM 4:16 PM 1:16 748 319

YUL-LGA 6:15 PM 7:32 PM 1:17 750 DC9

YUL-LGA 7:15 PM 8:31 PM 1:16 752 319

Weekday departures: 30

Weekend departures: 7

Total departures: 37

Air Canada 1999

Market Departure Arrival Block Time Flight #

YOW-LGA 6:45 AM 8:05 AM 1:20 308

YOW-LGA 7:35 AM 8:55 AM 1:20 308

YOW-LGA 1:15 PM 2:35 PM 1:20 310

YOW-LGA 5:00 PM 6:20 PM 1:20 314

Weekday departures: 15

Weekend departures: 5

Total departures: 30

Total departures to LGA, CP and AC combined 1999 fall sched=30+37+34+75= 176

Weekdays: 15+30+25+60=130

Weekends: 5+7+9+25=46

Air Canada 2007

Market Departure Arrival Block Time Flight # Equipment

YYZ-LGA 6:30 AM 700 320

YYZ-LGA 8:15 AM 702 E90

YYZ-LGA 9:15 AM 704 E75

YYZ-LGA 10:15 AM 706 E75

YYZ-LGA 11:15 AM 708 E75

YYZ-LGA 12:15 PM 7946 CRA

YYZ-LGA 2:15 PM 714 E90

YYZ-LGA 3:15 PM 716 320

YYZ-LGA 4:15 PM 718 319

YYZ-LGA 5:15 PM 720 E90

YYZ-LGA 6:15 PM 722 320

YYZ-LGA 8:30 PM 724 319

Weekday departures: 60

Weekend departures: 16

Air Canada

Market Departure Arrival Block Time Flight # Equipment

YUL-LGA 6:40 AM 740 E75

YUL-LGA 9:00 AM 742 E75

YUL-LGA 10:30 AM 8692 CRJ

YUL-LGA 1:45 PM 746 E75

YUL-LGA 3:30 PM 748 E75

YUL-LGA 5:40 PM 750 E90

YUL-LGA 7:30 PM 752 319

Weekday departures: 35

Weekend departures: 11

Air Canada

Market Departure Arrival Block Time Flight #

YOW-LGA 6:15 AM 7730

YOW-LGA 2:05 PM 7732

YOW-LGA 6:00 PM 7734

Weekday departures: 15

Weekend departures: 3

Total departures to LGA, CP and AC combined 2007 fall sched=140

Weekdays: 110

Weekends: 30

Anyway you cut it, there has been a reduction of 36 weekly departures to LGA from Canada over the period. Weekly capacity has dropped from 16,618 seats to 12,290 seats.

Note that walk up fares for YYZ-LGA tomorrow are a minimum of $554 + taxes or, $1.55 for every mile flown. On routes of the similar distance, with with low cost competition, such as YQR-YWG, or YEG-YLW, the lowest price charged is $221 and $151 respectively. Even YUL-YYZ is available for $119, or 25% of the charge per mile on YYZ-LGA.

At the time of the merger, there were at least 176 slots available. Now only 140 are used. They are a use 'em or lose 'em commodity so I assume they are gone.

That is too bad, because WJA operating 3x daily weekdays with a decent sched, and 3-4x on weekends would add about 2,600 seats a week into the Canada - LGA market, and overall capacity would still be well below that which existed in 1999. I can assure you that walk up fares would not be $554+ taxes either.

I know very few consumers who prefer less choice and higher prices over more choice and lower prices. The fact that WJ has grown from 3 to 65 aircraft kind of proves that.......But flame away anyway....

8):lol:

The data source are AC and CP published scheds, (hard copy in 1999, on-line in 2007).

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Perhpas its just me, but it appears Rosedale is missing a couple important parts of the puzzle:

How full were those competing AC-CP planes in 1999? We all know there was an often pointless head to head battle that CP ultimately lost (in no small part due to WS siphoning off needed revenue).

How much of the slack (if it exists) has been taken up by US carriers? Everyone knows WS's achilles heel in transborder is a total lack of brand recognition in the US markets. Can WS rely strictly on Cdn traffic in/out of US business markets?

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The last CEO, Kevin Jenkins, of Canadi>n was a brilliant guy, who, if he had the working capital would have clobbered WETJET. Time and place have a lot to do with WETJET's success not the brain power,which was imported in any event.

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The last CEO, Kevin Jenkins, of Canadi>n was a brilliant guy, who, if he had the working capital would have clobbered WETJET. Time and place have a lot to do with WETJET's success not the brain power,which was imported in any event.

Jenkins was not the last CEO at Canadian. The CEO chair was filled by:

1. Rhys Eyton (from Merger until the early 90s).

2. Kevin Jenkins (early 90s until 1996).

3. Kevin Benson (1996 until merger with AC).

Benson was brought in from Trizec Hahn. the other two were aviation lifers.

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The last CEO, Kevin Jenkins, of Canadi>n was a brilliant guy, who, if he had the working capital would have clobbered WETJET. Time and place have a lot to do with WETJET's success not the brain power,which was imported in any event.

Jenkins was not the last CEO at Canadian. The CEO chair was filled by:

1. Rhys Eyton (from Merger until the early 90s).

2. Kevin Jenkins (early 90s until 1996).

3. Kevin Benson (1996 until merger with AC).

Benson was brought in from Trizec Hahn. the other two were aviation lifers.

I meant Benson..he was a good operator. Thanks for the correction

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